Positioning Your Passion

PYP Podcast - Season 3 Ep. 003 - Larry TCHOGNINOU

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Created and hosted by Nah...  Positioning Your Passion is a reoccurring conversation series featuring creative entrepreneurs discussing their process and most importantly how they are successfully navigating the creative industry. From rallying resources to collaboration, we’re talking accomplishments, challenges and future goals.

On Season 3 episode 003 Larry TCHOGNINOU, polymath multidisciplinary creative and Architect discusses his home country of Benin, moving to Chicago from Paris along with his approach to design and much more. 

Instagram - @positioningyourpassion
Creator/Host - Nicole Humphrey @nahcreate
Director - Gabriel Cuillier 
Camera Op - TYanna Moore
Set Design - Jhaylen Cherry
Editor/Sound Engineer - Mxxd Media



Creator/Host - Nicole Humphrey @nahcreate
@positionyourpassion on instagram 

SPEAKER_02

Thanks for tuning in to Position in Your Passion Podcast. I'm your host, Na, and I'm here with one of my really good friends and favorite people, uh Larry Teen. Um, can you pronounce your last name for me? Chongyi Nu. Chongyi Nu. Yeah, that's good. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_02

Um, thank you for saying yes to being on the podcast.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for having me. That's funny, call.

SPEAKER_02

Let's do it. Let's get it. Let's say now. Um, we're kicking it off. Um, can you talk about where you're from and where you were raised?

SPEAKER_01

Um, I'm originally from Benin in West Africa, born and raised. Um, and then um actually, so Benin is a small country uh in West Africa, just next to Nigeria and next to Togo. So it's between Nigeria and Togo. I moved in France when I was 14. I lived there four years, uh, three years of high school in one year university. And then after that, I moved to Chicago.

SPEAKER_02

What about you to France?

SPEAKER_01

Uh my dad was living was living there, and um, can I say my dad and my mom had a deal where it's like you spend you finish your high school in France, and then you move to Chicago when you graduate from high school. So I moved to France, I did the three-year high school, but I ended up staying one more year. Um, and then after I moved to Chicago to leave my mom over here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. What was it like like moving to Chicago?

SPEAKER_01

I'm gonna lie to you. Um I did not want to move here. Because um it's great. I I often tell people that some people tell me, oh, I I move like I live in like I live in Chicago, and then I moved to LA, then I moved to New York, and then I moved to Boston and Miami, and okay, you you move some cities to city, but you're still in the same country. But the move that I did was like moving from one continent to another continent. Like you have two luggages and you gotta pack your whole life and then move to another place and live there. It's not even you passing one summer there. So it was like Africa to Europe and Europe to the US. So when I moved from Benin to France, it took me those three years of high school to adapt to a Western way of living from an African perspective. So my fourth year in France, which was like 2017, 2018, that fourth year was the year that I was like, okay, now I'm adapting to this thing. I'm seeing myself maybe pursuing a life here. It's like it's like I was.

SPEAKER_02

So if you get comfortable, yeah, it was like now you gotta like Yeah, I got it.

SPEAKER_01

I got the system, I understand how things work. I was getting comfortable to that system, I was getting myself rooted.

SPEAKER_02

And now you gotta learn.

SPEAKER_01

And my mom's like, okay, bro, it's time to move. I'm like, no, I'm not moving. Yeah, what you mean now? So I moved again here. So I did not want it to come, but she like she pushed me, so I came here. And then um when I came here, I was directly um like six months in, I understood that okay, I did the right move.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, what made you like that shift of perspective?

SPEAKER_01

I think I think first it was like I think I got really uh attracted by the American way of thinking, and also in the creative scene, the way people lift you up. You know, I feel like it's a really francophone thing for people to uh when you do something, people will say, Oh, it's not that bad. They never say it's good, they never say it's great. They say, oh, not bad. It's like it's a positiveness, but with a a negative connotation. We don't give you an American will say, oh shit, this is amazing. You're doing so cool. Oh my god, this is fire. So it gas you up. So even if you're not doing something amazing, that level of confidence that people give you, the way they lift you up, right? It makes you, oh maybe I'm doing something crazy or cool, and you go back to it. So that like miss a little bit where I was and when I was figuring out my creative journey, I didn't have a lot of those of those. So here when I came here and I still like having like those cheering moment and elevation from other people, okay, I think I'm doing something cool and I should keep doing it. So the way people lift you up that I love in Chicago. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's a really it's a really naive American thing, but it can have so much impact on like an upcoming yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Like fake it till you make it or be like be in it until you actually actualize it. Is that what you mean?

SPEAKER_01

What you mean?

SPEAKER_02

When you say like it's a little naive of a perspective.

SPEAKER_01

No, it it just like people get like uh amazed quickly by uh anything that tends to be creative, and it has a positive effect.

SPEAKER_02

Being able to boost it, yeah, yeah, and that's what you mean to enjoy.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, and I really like that. I didn't expect that. Okay, cool. This is fire, let's keep doing this, you know. Yeah, I kept doing things and one after the other, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, um growing up in Benin until you said 14. Yeah, and then transitioning to 16. Yeah, what was maybe some of like the your biggest challenges or yeah, beyond just suggesting challenges.

SPEAKER_01

Do you mean in terms of like what?

SPEAKER_02

Just life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know. I I had a really comfortable childhood.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Now my mom was doing everything for me to be comfy and stuff. So I always I won't say anything challenging. I had like we were in a rich, but I had like everything I wanted. You know what I mean? Like I was going to a public school, I was having a good education, I was having like family around, so I mean like uncle, uh, grandmother, um, no, I had a good life. I wasn't gonna say, oh, I'm like, I have a hard time doing no, I don't know. I will doing that way fucking like insulting all my people. Yeah. No, I had a really comfy life.

SPEAKER_02

Did you always know that you wanted to be an engineer or a designer?

SPEAKER_01

Um, so my first love is architecture because my mom was um building a house in the suburb of the city that we're living in Benin. Uh the city name is Kotonou. So she was building a house in that suburb. So every weekend we would go see the house in construction. So I just fell in love with like people mixing the cement, um the concrete, stacking the blocks and building that thing that would become our house. So one day I asked my mom, like, what's the name of the person that put those things together? And she said, is the architect. I said, Okay, cool. I would like to do that. So that's where the architecture fashion came. Yeah. But it was pretty, pretty, pretty early when I was six. Yeah. Like you, I mean, I had a phase where you dreamed about being doctor and all of that, but pretty early enough, just beat up, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. What was the first thing you remember being like passionate about? Like from a creative standpoint?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, just sketching buildings, um, drawing a lot. Like, like um, I had some friends at school, it's funny thing about this now. I had some friends at school and they have like um some of them had uh this subscription at this um French French Institute where you could go and like uh rent books. So they bring like those like Japanese manga, Dragon Ball, and he he will bring a bunch of them to school. And like our goal was like to take one page and see who sketched like that page, who reproduced that page the best. So we just like draw those like song go cartoons and stuff, ridiculous period of my life, but that was fun. So drawing and sketching and stuff.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. You consider yourself a polymath? Yeah. What does that mean? And where did you like start to like claim that for yourself?

SPEAKER_01

So a polymath is a person that has a deep knowledge in several fields. So a good example of a polymath is Leonardo da Vinci. He was a painter, a really good painter, he was a really good engineer, he was a great um scientist studying the anatomy, bunch of stuff. And in each thing that he was doing, he was great. He was a reference into it. So is this person that is not a specialist? And he so that's what a polymat is someone that has deep knowledge in several, so it's a renaissance person. So I think we are at a moment of the time where people trying to make you to be a specialist. Like this person, the specialist of like, I don't know, climate change. He's a specialist or whatever. But I think that is the moment to step, like step away from that and like, okay, we are specialist generalists. We do everything, we do it all, we try it all, and we are renaissance people. We can be like painter and like being like editor and being like photographer and videographer in design spaces. So and I've been claiming that thing for a while, but the thing is the reason why I put in a hat is that I was talking to a friend about last time. When I started, I wanted to do a merch for Rapture, which is my solo practice. And I was like, if I put rapture in a hat, nobody's gonna buy it. Because the brand is not strong enough. It's not supreme, it's not Nike, yeah, it's not jound, it's not like Joe Fresh Good, it's not Benjamin Edgar. I mean, like, I haven't done enough yet to have like for the brand to have that strength. So by a logo, it's recognizable when everybody can have it. So I'm like, what words represent that ethos and that people can vibe with? So I'm like, okay, polymax. That's what I've been trying to do. That's all what I'm claiming to be, and that's what I've been doing through my practice. Doing objects, furniture, spaces, writing poetry sometimes, and putting all of that, I'm like, okay, polymath will work and it will resonate with people. So I just put in a hat and people love the soul.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So it's just me pretty much. Yeah, and uh people that feel like they're all the same thing. It's better than just putting a logo on the hat. It's like a word that represents people that vibe with uh the way of thinking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you talked about rupture, which is your um, how did that come about and what does that mean? Like what is rupture?

SPEAKER_01

Um, so it's uh a design ethos that is based on six point. I always forget that. But it's like being bold and crazy, design has means of communication, um, opposed uses to create others, um designing three steps, being colorful, and bold and crazy. So I just like having like those points anytime I'm designing something, I just apply it to it. And the reason why I name it rupture, I could have name it name it break or whatever, but the reason why I name it rupture, in architecture school, they often tell you that everything has been created, that you cannot invent anything new. And at the moment I stop subscribing to that idea, but I'm asking myself, like, is it too late for new ideas though? And the answer, like, maybe no. So maybe rupture has a break to that old way of thinking, like everything has been invented, you cannot create nothing new. So pretty much what I'm doing is like taking daily objects to that to that way of thinking, to that ethos that philosophy, and rethinking them and showing that okay, we can still make stuff new. We can take this thing and cut it this way, cut it this way, and it becomes a new object. So that's what I'm trying to do. That's pretty much my good practice to rupture, pretty much. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Would you say that's like your design theory as well?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's a design theory, a design principle, a theory, yeah, a way of thinking, an approach, a direction, a philosophy. Yeah. Yeah. In a brain, maybe.

SPEAKER_02

Nice. Um, you're a poet, a writer? You consider yourself that as well.

SPEAKER_01

I used to be. Not much now.

SPEAKER_02

How does um, I feel like one of my first uh opportunities to see like a full show of yours, there was everything represented. You had t-shirts, you have a zine, which you had some writing in there. How do you how would you say like all of your um mini talents coexist through rupture?

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah, I think like uh all of those mini talents come through it because like when you have when you create a system and ethos, right, you need to create objects. That's the first thing. So that's that is the architecture scale because product design is architecture at a small scale, pretty much. So the designer scale comes into that. The writing scale comes like into the fact that after creating the thing, you you gotta write a caption to explain your work, almost like an artist statement. And that's where the writer aspect comes into it. Like, how do we structure for people to understand this thing and why is why does it exist? So pretty much the way I structure things usually is like it's someone that tell me that Nike, he said they do problem solution benefit. But that's how I structure other captions. If you look at every caption on the the product I release, it's like problem, solution, benefit. Why am I doing it? Why is it designed this way? And what why what does it add to your daily life? Why is it there? You know what I mean? So I structure things that way, and I think that really comes to the writing, the poetry thing. Like you write a poem because of something, and after you write it, it makes you feel something, you know? So the writing skill comes in. And the third part is like imagery. Um I used to photograph a lot. I don't do it much anymore.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

But because the reason why I don't do it much anymore, because I feel like there is some visual, there's some visual standards that I wanna bring into the work and the way the work is showcased that my skills cannot do. And I reach out to friends that can bring that level to it. But that early interest into photography comes to play in like the way I see things, the way I like, uh, oh, we should place the camera this way, we should get this way. It also still understanding and um working with others and putting the things together. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, you talked about like growing up and just having like your mom being able to make things like comfortable. I've met your mom a couple times. She's gay. Um, what although you didn't have the challenges growing up and you were able to really like um transition into it's like high school, comfortable, what were your challenges, I guess, coming to the states and like you're in school? Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, here, challenges here is just like new language, you know. Um I would say new way of thinking. The new way of thinking was more in Europe. I had a I had a hard time understanding like Western way of thinking. I remember one day we were in class, and uh someone made a joke. I didn't find it funny at all, but the whole class will start laughing. They start laughing like for a good 30 seconds, and like, bro. I don't get it. Well, I don't get it. I already never get it. But here it was more like the new language. Uh the new language, uh, the way people navigate, understanding also some codes that I didn't know, the slang. Um it was a lot of stuff that I didn't understand, like code-wise, like I always talk about like maybe maybe stuff like racial representation, uh uh stuff like that. I didn't, it was not part of my reality at all. So I got to understand them and uh get used to them and like uh assimilate them to my uh new routine, pretty much. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And how has that like um I guess assimilation or adapting? Like how has that influenced your work or you think it has? Um or even you personally?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, it did, yeah. Because you grow. Every day you grow, every day you wear new stuff, you know? So uh um I'm still learning stuff every day. Like friends send me stuff, I'm like, what is this thing? What does it mean? I don't I don't understand that reference, you know what I mean? Um last time I asked a friend about something, it's like I remember um this New Balance in Joe Fresh's campaign, for example, where the guys were wearing a rubber on his jean, and I test a friend, like, what this means? Why people wear rubber on the jean under the shoes, it's always a really American thing of like being the 2000s, yeah, yeah, yeah, really Chicago thing. So I, you know, there's some codes that I understand because I'm not from here. Yeah. So I'm still learning every day. There's some I don't know. So I learn, I ask questions, and I grow like that, you know what I mean? So yeah. There's always room to grow and learn and uh try to educate myself on stuff that I don't know, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. How do you um I guess like identify yourself in terms of being an artist? Because obviously you're like African, right? But then now you've you're in America, yeah, but you uh Parisian, right? So like where how does that and where how are you navigating that?

SPEAKER_01

A world citizen, maybe?

SPEAKER_02

That's how that's how you yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe a world citizen, uh yeah. Yeah, just a human, a world citizen. It's crazy when you when you travel and you see the world, like things just like um some stuff you understand them better, some stuff you don't, some tough stuff don't make sense, some stuff start clicking. You know what I mean? Um and then it adds to your it adds to your diversity. You become more and more rich uh and understand more the universal story. I can tell you a dumb thing, for example. I went to this pizza spot in Chicago, I think the name is Bunchy. Okay, um, it's actually really good. You know that place? Yeah, okay. And uh I went and I thought like I went I went with some friends and we were ordering pizza, and the guy was asking us. I thought it was pizza by slice, and the guy was asking how much of the pizza we wanted, and we gotta tell him how much we wanted, and he we cut it with a scissor, and I thought it was a stupid contest. I thought it was a pretty dumb compact concept. Okay, I thought it was pretty dumb and pretty stupid and pretty dumb. Okay, but two months after, I went to Italy, and they were cutting it, and everybody all the it's an Italian thing, yeah. So you go to the bakery and they have those pizza, you say how much you want, and they colour the scissors, and and then I thought it was cool, actually. But I mean that they're kind of like maybe the pizza, like the mother's but but but in Chicago, I didn't understand where it comes from, I didn't understand the reference. I get it. I thought it was a stupid concept in Chicago. When I seen for the first time, I thought it was pretty stupid. But going to Italy and go see that, okay, that's where that's where it comes from. What did it do? Do they do it this way? What did they shape it this way? What did they cut a scissor? They start making sense. Okay, it's not like it's dumb. It comes from here, and that's how people put it. And then I understood that actually it was really interesting.

SPEAKER_02

So allowing it like exactly.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, just from exposure. Exactly. It changes your perspective of everything. So I so I think it's it makes your world citizen. Yeah. And you just understand that your city is just a village. And when you go to another village, you see other ways of doing things. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02

So any advice you have for um artists that are transitioning from one world of living and then coming into like another space? Like, is there any like big takeaways from you or the things that have you just just been able to help you get through?

SPEAKER_01

I would say, oh, that's that's yeah, I would say let it happen.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Let it happen. Sometimes we just try to pull too much. It's just like it's a moment of transition. I don't think there's much to lose. Just just let it happen. And see what you take away from it. You know what I mean? So let it happen. I always said you say that. Yeah, if you're in a transition moment, let it happen. And uh you're probably gonna get something. Or not. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Nike lab. Yeah. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Can you talk about like what the recursion center thing? Yeah, yeah. What was that? How did how did you even get your research?

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Um Nike Recursion Center. And I push so much for that shit. Um, so when I came to Chicago, I went to this program, um, Nike program by True working on projects. He's a painter from the city, and he did this Nike program like back in 2018. So when they fell in love with the brand and what they were doing, and then then I started like trying to go to Portland to meet designers out there and learn more about what they were doing in that field. So I was super interested. So I went to Portland. Cohort you skipped. You said what?

SPEAKER_02

We skipped this cohort. Talk about the cohort. Which cohort? The cohort you were in. Which was with Virgil.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, I'm getting there.

SPEAKER_02

But you you that was before Portland.

SPEAKER_01

No.

SPEAKER_02

It was in Chicago.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, but we're gonna start there.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah. So I mean, I went to Portland a few times to show those people my thing.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

And when I came back to Chicago too, I stayed in touch with the people in this Chicago thing and just keep showing them my work. So Portland people know about me, Chicago people know about me, and I just bothered them a lot. I just sent like called emails. Hey guys, I really want to work with you guys. Like, please put new stuff. Sometimes people won't reply, sometimes people are fucking reply, but what's nothing they so that summer of 2019, they put together this thing in the Virgil Labro Recursion Center. I think it was a crew of like, I think we were 10 or 11 cranious of the city that would go to the Nike program. And at the end of it, we would just like show a pro project to Virgil. So I made a chair for my final project.

SPEAKER_03

Nice.

SPEAKER_01

And um to me it was crazy because that was that 2019 year, I was super geeking about Virgil's work. I tell it was, I mean, I was vibing with it a lot because also it's a lot of connection. Um African migrant kid going to architecture school and looking to fashion and do all of those product things. I mean, like, it was it was representation in a sense. Um, and the work also, like, wherever you come from, right, you resonate with the work. So I was reading to it, and then young me had the opportunity to go through that program and me and I think that was crazy.

SPEAKER_02

What were like some of your biggest takeaways?

SPEAKER_01

Um we I think like I had that um I had moment at that moment during that summer, it was like you can make anything pretty much. At that moment, I just clicked like you can make anything you really want to do. He talked about the importance to show the process where things come from. And I do that a lot. I should have the storytelling. The storytelling, the behind the scenes of things, how things come together, the storytelling. Yeah, the specific code, there's no there is no product with that story. Um, there's no identity with that story. So I try to bring that into the work a lot. And one other thing I understood from like the importance of travel. Um, because the way the we the week we met him, he was in Paris and in Belgium, and then he went to Greece, and then he went to Detroit, and then he was in Chicago the same week. I was asking him, like, how do you do that? Yeah, how'd you do that? And he he was like, he never stay in a place more than three hours, and he never live in this stay in a city more than a week. It was really important for him to move around, and that's the way he will spread his legacy and also see trends. Because a big part of his work was about seeing trends. He just like they see trends, they create moon boards, and from there they build shows to response to those trends. So the importance of travel, you gotta go see the world, and I think it was important for his creative juice too. So those stuff I learned from, you know.

SPEAKER_02

Nice, and then that segue into a continuing opportunity, right? You got to go out to Nike.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So went to the headquarters twice, 2019.

SPEAKER_02

And how old were you then?

SPEAKER_01

That's a good question. I think I was 21.

SPEAKER_02

Come on. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I will like, it's funny the way I would do this thing. I will uh I was in the Hair Washington City College by then. And then I would get my financial refund and book a flight to go to Portland and meet designers all day long and show them my work. My mom would like, take your money and buy some code. I'm like, no, I don't want to.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So I did that twice, 2018, 2019, and the second, the second trip I went, I made this HR, and every every three months I would send him called email. Like, hey sir, how are you? Just checking in him. Yeah. Just checking him, I'm here. And then I did a few times in in December 2020. He he replied to my email and he said, Okay, I uh there's this opportunity coming to apply to it, to it. And I didn't even know what it was because it it was not specific. It's like we're doing this thing, and at the end of the application, you see a photo of Serena Williams. So it doesn't even make sense, you know? Just like her portion of so just like athlete, whatever athlete. So we did that, and then we went to a combine where they tell us, okay, what this thing is gonna be. So they give us a brief, we fight the brief, and after the top 15, they sent her the list with our portfolio, and she picked 11.

SPEAKER_02

And you were one of the others?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So in the 11, we went to Portland and we had to design a collection for her.

SPEAKER_02

For her?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Serena Williams.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, come on. The big boss. Yes. What a flex.

SPEAKER_02

Come on. Yeah. I remember seeing it when it finally rolled out because I mean you have been working on it, and then maybe what at least a year or so. Like it took a minute for it to actually roll out.

SPEAKER_01

It's like uh six months of design and one year, yeah, nine months of like, you know, production campaign. I mean, to put it together, and then it came out, and then we have two seasons, we had spring and fall 2023.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And during that time, you're also building with your partner that you met that was in the cohort as well.

SPEAKER_01

James, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We start a points of sale, um, which is like a design creative agency where we design spaces, architecture, uh, we do furniture, objects, venture stuff.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Super dope. So being able to stay consistent, persistent as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, can you talk about like where do you get your confidence from? Where do you like, where does it come from?

SPEAKER_01

Ah, that's a good question. I feel like fearlessness to just I feel like I feel like this is the way I put it sometimes. I feel like all the creative people, just imagine this is an imagery, right? This is an image. And I want you to go back. There's this specific Nike, uh no, not Nike, I did this ad that is named Let's Create. I want you to go see it, but this is the way it works to me, at least, and the way I think it. All the creative people, you are, you, you, I don't know, like Bennett Garve, Virgil, Joe Fresh Cood, Duncey, anybody you can think about that's creative. We are all at this big dinner, big dinner table, okay? And the only way, and there's a conversation going on on the table, right? And the only way to participate to the conversation is to put a piece of work on the table. You don't talk, you don't say, I like, I don't like. If you don't like, you put a piece of work on the table that shows your point of view. And the thing is, more work you put on the table, more the conversation goes toward you. But again, there's no right or wrong way to do it. It's just about showing your point of view, you know? So to me, whatever I'm doing, that I'm just being part of the conversation. So if you are being part of a conversation is not about being right or wrong, you're just participating. So I'm just participating to a big conversation. So, and it all comes from there. I'm just putting work on the table. Yes, and the work sucks for me, you know. Um, some people have left the party, the the dinner, but they put so much work on the table that that work would talk to them for them for the upcoming 500 years. You know what I mean? So it's like, okay, get putting work on the table. Yeah. You know what I mean? So that's pretty much maybe where that confidence comes from. It is is is is not like um, it's just a conversation for me. I'm just participating to a general conversation. And I'm not doing that to please anybody. I'm just doing it because it's the inner voice and the kids in myself that just wanna talk. It's like, you know, it you have kids at home and you guys eating and they just want to talk.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah, you just want to talk. Let him talk. Okay, I'm just so you're just talking. I'm just talking, you know, I'm just putting stuff.

SPEAKER_01

No, that's very well said. Yeah. Very well said. I'm just talking and I put the work on the table. You know, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So for the artists that will may listen to this, it's like put the work on the table. Participate. Participate.

SPEAKER_01

Participate. It's a participation, it's not a competition. It participates the conversation. And also, I think it's it's also not competition, the fact that you should compare yourself to the people because it comes a lot to that. Like, I mean, like with social media, numbers. Uh, it happened to me too. I'm not gonna lie, I didn't master those things. It gets to me to compare myself to people sometimes. But it's not much about comparation, it's about aspiration. It's just like you should not compare yourself to people like that have like 10 years of career already. Because like their plane took off before yours. Yeah, they're gonna make it to New York before you wait. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, they're supposed to. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

They took off earlier, you know. But instead of comparing, right, you can aspire. Okay, I would like to be like that. And how do I do it to not copy it, but like how do I add my style to it?

SPEAKER_02

I mean, you very young, 21, got an opportunity to go and work in design for Nike Serena Williams.

SPEAKER_01

I was 22.

SPEAKER_02

22. Young, yeah. Um, and it didn't just stop there though. You actually got an offer to continue and you turned it down. Can you talk about that? Like, and what went into that decision? And yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So that was the hardest moment of my young designer career. I'm gonna say clearly. It was not like, oh, I flex on that man, I say no. Y'all know it was like, am I making the right? Yeah, it was so hard. It was really hard in the sense that so firstly they were offering me a color designer position. And uh I said, I didn't say no. I said, I don't know. I told the HR, and he said, okay, if you don't know, we're gonna help you figure out something else, and blah blah blah. So I said, okay. And then I pushed a lot to um get on what I wanted. Like I I reach out to people, can you help me get this job? Can you help me do this? Can you help me do that? I pushed a lot. Um, and that's where I want to come to the idea of pushing. At a point, you can push, right? Because you really want something. But at the moment, you just gotta stop. Stop pushing. Because sometimes you can be pushing, but just like like anything in life, right? Sometimes it's not the right moment for you to get something. And it was not just the right moment at Nike for me to get that specific job I wanted because there was nothing open. If it was anything open that was fitting in, they would put me there. So it was not the it was not nothing open, and uh they really wanted to keep me, but whatever they wanted to put me in, the lane they wanted to put me in was not the right one. So we agree on the idea that okay, you leave, you leave the program with no job, but we come back to you when we get something. You were two like that in the program, two people that didn't find the thing where to land.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So I left, I came back to school in 2022, and uh in January 2022, and I'm gonna lie to you, mentally I was not there because I just wanted to go back to Beerett on ASAP. So I know they're gonna come back, and uh and I kept pushing, I kept pushing, I kept like messaging people, applying to stuff, applying, applying, and then they came back to me with another opportunity, but it still was not a good thing.

SPEAKER_02

So can we talk about that though? In terms of like, I know you're saying it wasn't a good thing, but it wasn't the right fit for you and what you wanted to do.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, your career. So I I believe in this like uh 10 years plan thing. Okay, is like in 10 years, where do you see yourself, right? Okay, cool. Does the decision that you are making now lead you there? No, okay, she should not take it. It's not yours.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Before even that conversation came, like that dilemma came in. I met few people that tell me that you can say no. Even if it's like one of the biggest companies ever. If it's not comfy enough for you, or if it doesn't work for you, you can say, okay, this doesn't work for me. No. So that gave me the courage to say, uh, I don't think this is the right thing, maybe we should rethink it. What if we do this or that? So, and I gave myself like a deadline because I came back to school. I didn't want to stay there, but architecture school was my first love. Architecture was my first love, so I'll back at it. And if I would be there for two more years, I would graduate. So I gave myself a deadline. I was like, okay, if they don't come back to me with something reasonable by September 2022, which is I'm saying that school the first semester in January, like fall semester, and if by the beginning spring, they don't come back to me with something good, I'm not going back. That was my own like that was my game plan. If they don't come back with the right thing, I'm just gonna pursue their architecture lane. So they didn't come back with something good on time. So I said no, I didn't go back.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

And I and I stick to I just like okay, this is my decision, I gotta commit to it. But like during the what the nine month period that separate the January coming back to school to the September, is that nine months? Yeah, maybe, maybe, yeah, whatever. During the that period, right? I was fucking bad. I was like, okay, I think I fucked up. Some days I wake up like, damn, I did I did great. Yes, and the following down, bro, you just fucked up so bad. And then he would be like, no, you fucked up, no, you did great. It's just it was just that. It was just that. Like, so you're just in fight with yourself during a crazy amount of time every day. Your mental health takes a lot, you know. I never talked about this before, but mentally you feel super exhausted. Um, you you start doubting sometimes a little bit. I think I did wrong. This will never come back again. I think I just throw the opportunity on my life. And this following you there, like, I think that you actually did great by those days. It's just gonna open me more opportunities.

SPEAKER_02

It's like up and down.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. But on that period, right, there is uh before the hard deadline that I gave myself came, there's a bunch of stuff that happened that made me think that I took the right decision. In between that, it was like we design my friend James and I, a point of sale, we design a show for a fashion brand named Sebon in Paris, in Paris, Fashion Week. Yeah. If I was a Nike, I would not do it. I would never do that project because Sebon collaborate Nike. And if I work on a Cebon project behind Nike's conflict of interest, but if I would have choose between the set design project, the color roll. Set design design. Yeah, you know what I mean? What else did we do? I start designing um a loafer. No, not a loafer. I start designing uh a uh slide for a friend of mine, his name is Maxy. Um and if I was a Nike, I could not, because that's conflict of interest.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I could not. But between the color roll and the footwear design job, which one was my favorite? Footwear design, because I'm actually designing a product. So the three, four, five project that was showing me that I took the right decision, but was I didn't know yet. Um, so and those projects helped me to build my confidence back a little. So okay, cool, it's done. I'm not going back. It's done. Yeah, I don't need to. This is this is a It's not because like I I I don't need to, but just like okay, this is what I'm coming into, where I'm coming into that, and I'm just gonna stay focused on that and then I'm just gonna graduate in two years and after that we see.

SPEAKER_02

No, that's really inspiring. And I feel like um you think about like obviously the timing, but it's like the brand's not going anywhere. Exactly. So yeah, if it and I think you told me that. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it's like being able to um have a plan for yourself and be like, if it doesn't line up, it's not for me. Um, but obviously the mental I get in over yay.

SPEAKER_01

I don't chase out track. If it's not that, it's not that. Facts. Yeah, you know, so but it was hard. I can tell you, it wasn't like, oh, I won't gonna flex here and say, oh, it was so easy for me. No, it was not, it was difficult, it was hard, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But you still have those relationships and respect.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. That's yeah. Like the friends, the managers, the the mentors, um the people that you're like, oh shit, I would love to work so much with those people uh on the moment it didn't happen, but what you do now, they admire it and inspire them. Um that's priceless. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And then other projects you got to do, yeah, exactly, exactly like complex. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

And you can always like you can always work with your brand in another way. You can design a set for them, you can design a campaign for them. And there's a bunch of people that used to work at Nike and that create their own agency and that work for them still. So you can still do so much, you know.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Working with um corporations and then individuals, um, how do you think you've been able to like like maintain your design integrity? Or are there any times where you've had to like turn down projects in order to kind of stay?

SPEAKER_01

I feel like what I understood in corporate for for ideas to go through is like when I do rupture project, for example, I'm like, I do whatever I want, you know? Yeah, I can ask like I can ask feedback, one or two friends about what they think about this. They can give the feedback, but at the end of the day, like I decide, okay, if this is happening, you know, you know. But in corporate, it's really hard, principally when you work in design, because for example, socks. I used to design socks and bag. That's what I did. On a socks, for example, 100 people have a say. You know, it goes from your design director, it goes to like your manager, and then um the team you are working in, they have a say on it. And then it goes to the factory, it goes also to uh merchandise, people that buy the products. I mean, you can design his socks that and create a story around it to be purple, and your whole team fucks with it. We just love it so hard. And then someone else. And the marketing, like the the merchandise people come and say, Hey, this is fire, but we don't sell purple, we gotta be yellow. What do you do? You turn it yellow, it's yellow, it's yellow now, or you can have the purple, but you gotta add a yellow now somewhere, or you add a yellow pair on a pack to make whoever one gonna like the purple, at least to buy it. You know what I mean? So to push ideas, and we push a crazy idea. We had a jewelry on a socks, we have a school charm on the socks that was detachable, and it was such a headache. So when you have crazy ideas like that, what what helped us because I'm it's not just me, we were a team and we designed this thing. Um what helped us to make that that product specific product go through was that we had a good idea, we had to show people at the company that it was makeable because we told them, okay, if the footwear department was able to put like a jewelry on a shoe, you can put jewelry on socks. So we showed them that it was possible, okay. How this thing is putting together, okay. You make the socks here, you make the jewelry here, you send it to this place and they put it together. Okay, so we show them it was doable. And the third thing, this which is the most important in corporate, you gotta have an advocate. You need to have someone in the company or in your team that has a big, which has been there for a long time, that say, okay, this is a great idea. I'm fighting for these kids to make this thing happen. So any call we were going in, my manager and my mentor were my advocate. They were like, this needs to happen, this needs to happen, this needs to happen, this needs to happen. And any call we were not on, they're just pushing for it. It happened, you know? So a good idea, show them that it's doable. And then should that it's happened, should that happen.

SPEAKER_02

Nice. Yeah. And I think corporate space. A few more questions um before we wrap up for um personal projects. Um, any advice you would give to uh designers trying to figure out concept versus cost? And I know you experience this a lot even with clients where it's like, I want this thing, but then you start to think about like, okay, what is that material cost? What is that? And then it it blows up and you have to kind of maybe shrink it down.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah, I think I think I think you should do the best of what you have first. That's what I do. I mean, like, if you cannot afford like CNC milling with five axes machine, five five if you cannot afford milling on a five asex CNC, which costs insane amount of money, don't do it. Find other ways to do it. You know what I mean? Like, there's always a way to execute something that you want to do with the mean that you have. Always, you know what I mean? Always, always. So it's your work, it's on you to figure that out. You can always do it. If you don't have a mean to make something with the the the the what you have on your hand, find another way to do it, and that's where you are creative. But in terms of like like scaling down stuff, it happens a lot in like client job, for example, where you ask people clearly from the beginning, like what is the budget, and they never they're never honest about it. So you design crazy, and then and then you quote it and say, Okay, actually, we can't afford that. Yeah, we cannot afford that. We can just afford half of it. Okay, so okay, we start putting we start removing stuff. So it's crazy. This happened a lot with point of sell projects.

SPEAKER_02

How do you navigate that? And like what advice would you give to entrepreneurs like help navigating that?

SPEAKER_01

We killed the neon light first. You have a lot of redesign a project like a neon light with a brand logo on it. That's the first thing we kill. It's like it's half of the budget. You kill the neon light. It's like, okay, no neon light. Okay, cool. What is next? What do we kill it? No, just kill stuff. You just kill enough stuff to fit the budget and also make sure that your storytelling still holds. So, what we advise people is like tell us clearly what's the budget, and then we design around that. It's better, it's less headache for everybody. You know, you tell okay, we have this amount and we design around that. And if you say, okay, I have a little bit more, right? Then we add something here. What are you laughing at?

SPEAKER_02

Like I'll resonate. I know exactly the struggles that you're going through. Um, all right, a couple more questions. No. No? Oh shit. I'm sorry. It's okay. You're gonna cut. It's just me and you. Oh they're not here. Oh, I'm sorry. It's me and you, but it's okay, it's good. It's personality. No, no, no, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, I'm sorry, guys.

SPEAKER_02

No, no, no. A couple more questions to um trying to see which ones I want to pick. Um, you most recently got a workspace. Oh, yeah. Um, can you talk about what went into that decision and what like how has that impacted your design? Oh, that's a good office, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's a good question. I think um finished architecture school, graduating, and I was like, okay, what do we do? Uh do we go work for a cooperation or do we get a job or do I persist in this design thing and see where it brings me, you know? So the bet was like uh take the a comfortable decision and just like build my own stuff. Come on. Like, yeah, do that shit for a few years and see where it brings me. I think it can bring me far. Exactly. It will. Like, so I need a studio space for that. So I get a studio and just like working from there. I go early and I work hard enough until I'm tired and I go home and I redo it. And uh, I just work on everything I want to work. I just, yeah, I love it. I love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Any advice you would give to um emerging artists that maybe can't afford like a space, but like how can they carve out that time and space and be disciplined of locking in?

SPEAKER_01

A lot of people work from home, do it really well. Um, but I think it requires a lot of discipline though, distraction. So I'll have some friends that are super, super effective from working from home. So if you can do it good, uh if you can arrive for a space, maybe you co-rent a space to be friends, which is cool. Um yeah, that's what I would say. Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, it can be hard because you gotta hustle to pay that rent. Which is it's a grind, you know? So yeah. Yeah. So you just gotta do it. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

What do you think? Um, what stories are you telling or communicating through your design and your create just out of the box, like, but also it's functional, a lot of the things that you create. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I think it's um I'm starting subscribing to that idea that my childhood is my mood board. Okay. And I'll go back to uh objects or references or icons that are true to me from where I come from to create daily stuff that are super anchored with that story. And I think I may have other references like people have, like, I haven't seen more designers like, for example, like maybe it exists, but it's not a lot of people, like, for example, like designing egg holder, for example, but that egg holder specifically, specifically has a strong reference to something that an eggs means for me when I was a kid. You know what I mean? Or for example, right now I'm like, I was walking on a beach last summer, and I've seen people bring in the small grill, and they were doing a barbecue on the beach. I thought it was so cool. So I'm like, okay, I want to do a fire pit where you can grill stuff, man. And it's like, okay. What was my relationship with fire pit when I was uh small when I was a kid? And I would remember the stores where my parents would cook on when we're kids. They have this really specific shape, they're really local. So I referenced that to design the new one that I'm designing. It's anchoring my childhood, right? Because if you show someone from my country that form, they know what it is. You know what I mean? But at the same time, someone that doesn't know what it is, we see functioning to and building too. So trying to merge all of that. How like some references, the deeper side of the reference, someone will get it, and someone that doesn't get it see something else still to interpret it with uh beauty or nice proportion, you know. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

What's next for you? Keep doing stuff, keep doing stuff, yeah. Maybe have your products in some spaces, yeah. Yeah, we'll see.

SPEAKER_01

That's a goal. Uh-huh. Yeah. And the MCA coming. When's this thing coming up?

SPEAKER_02

Oh no, we'll see. The editor. We'll see.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we'll see. I mean, I mean, I'm uh I'm gonna announce it soon, but yeah, we have the pop-up at the NCA.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, let's go.

SPEAKER_01

Let's go. That's huge. I don't know. It hasn't even hit me yet. I didn't I need to it need to happen for me to tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02

You'll do Lackman Date.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. Lack in dates.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

What questions should I ask them?

SPEAKER_02

Um, who?

SPEAKER_01

The people.

SPEAKER_02

Um, thank you so much for being on the podcast. I love it. Um, it's been such a joy and a delight. Thank you for saying yes. Um, thank you. You can follow positioning your passion at positioning your passion, um, as well as not create. And where can they find you?

SPEAKER_01

Instagram, Larry Truinu. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Point of sale.

SPEAKER_01

Points of sale. Points of sale. And um, yeah, we are there. Perfect. Enrupturevision that bcartel that comes yeah, that's the website.

SPEAKER_02

Perfect.

SPEAKER_01

Hello all, here's Larry Choino. You are listening to Position Your Passion podcast.

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